{"id":15120,"date":"2025-05-14T19:22:52","date_gmt":"2025-05-14T19:22:52","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/?p=15120"},"modified":"2025-05-14T19:22:52","modified_gmt":"2025-05-14T19:22:52","slug":"podcast-93-five-years-later-white-coat-wisdom-with-dr-jim-dahle","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/?p=15120","title":{"rendered":"Podcast 93: Five Years Later &#8211; White Coat Wisdom with Dr. Jim Dahle"},"content":{"rendered":"<div>\n<p>In this episode, host Steve Chen reconnects with Dr. Jim Dahle, founder of The White Coat Investor, to reflect on life, money, and purpose five years after their first conversation. Jim shares the impact of a serious 2024 climbing accident, how it shaped his perspective on aging, balance, and living with intention. They dive into investing philosophy, simplifying wealth, estate planning for kids, and the challenges of being a content creator in the age of AI. The episode blends financial wisdom with personal insight, showing how resilience and purpose evolve with experience.<\/p>\n<p>Watch the video on our <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/UERcZABp8BI?si=zj6xAgog9lTwj3y5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube Channel<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p>\n  <iframe title=\"Five Years Later: White Coat Wisdom with Dr. Jim Dahle (ep.93)\" width=\"788\" height=\"443\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/UERcZABp8BI?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><br \/>\n  <\/iframe>\n<\/p>\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-listen-now\">Listen Now<\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/the-newretirement-podcast.simplecast.com\/episodes\/making-sense-of-social-security\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Listen to the podcast on Simplecast<\/a> or right here:<\/p>\n<p>\n  <iframe height=\"200px\" width=\"80%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/33dc5833-7a10-4a3b-991c-fb62a1ce2d83?dark=false\" style=\"max-width: 800px; display: block; margin: 0 auto;\"><br \/>\n  <\/iframe>\n<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-callouts\">Callouts:<\/h3>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/44J7wHt\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">A Walk in the Park: The True Story of a Spectacular Misadventure in the Grand Canyon by Kevin Fedarko\u00a0<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3RFFiWw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Purpose Code: How to Unlock Meaning, Maximize Happiness, and Leave a Lasting Legacy<\/a> by Jordan Grumet<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4jUeDBe\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Die with Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life<\/a> By Bill Perkins<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4d0cgea\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><em>The Four Pillars of Investing<\/em> by William J. Bernstein<\/a>\u00a0<\/p>\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-transcription\">Transcription<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Announcer<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=0.27\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">00:00<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>This episode is brought to you by the Boldin Financial Planning Platform.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=4.08\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">00:04<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Formerly NewRetirement, create a financial plan for free boldin.com. Welcome to Boldin Your Money. I\u2019m your host Steve Chen, and today we\u2019re catching up with someone who\u2019s no stranger to the podcast, Dr. Jim Dahle. He\u2019s an emergency room physician and founder of the White Coat Investor. Jim and I first talked back in January, 2019 and we talked a lot about his own journey through building financial resiliency and building towards financial independence. When we talked a lot about what it is, especially for doctors to go through their own journey as they go through medical school, how they deal with debt and how they set themselves up to be on a great path over the course of their whole lives. And so I wanted to kind of loop back and check in five years later to learn more about what\u2019s developed with Jim\u2019s life and also with White Coat Investors. So with that, Jim, welcome back to the show. I appreciate you joining us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=68.4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">01:08<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s wonderful to be here. It\u2019s been a little while, but it\u2019s good to be back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=72.81\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">01:12<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, you\u2019re looking good and we met at Bogleheads a couple of years ago, so it was great to meet you in person. One of the reasons we reconnected was I saw your post about your climate accident, which was almost a year ago in August, 2024, and it seemed like that really had a big impact on your life and would love to get your take on how that affected your thinking and if it\u2019s affected the way you\u2019re approaching life at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=97.74\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">01:37<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, interesting the way you phrase that, how it\u2019s affected my thinking, right, because frankly, I\u2019m lucky to be alive, right? I had pretty serious injuries from this fall, including fractures of all the way across my face, separated my skull from my face and leaked all the fluid that my brain\u2019s supposed to be swimming in out my nose, aside from spine fractures and rib fractures and nasty wrist fracture and shoulder separation and lacerations of those sorts of things. So it was a pretty big trauma. This was my first time in my life being disabled. I was definitely disabled from work at least for a few weeks and really took several months off, and so that\u2019s a sobering time. I\u2019m back at work now and I can do all the work I want to do both in the emergency department as well as here at the White Coat Investor, but it does feel as if one chapter of my life has closed and another one has opened in that respect.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=155.46\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">02:35<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>If for nothing else, then recreation activities, I mean, my wrist is probably not coming back to a hundred percent, so am I going to be climbing as hard as I used to? No. Is there a whole list of things on my bucket list that I\u2019m probably never climbing? Yes, there is. And so it does feel over the last year that I\u2019ve moved a little bit from my youth to middle age and I turned 50 this summer and maybe I should become middle aged much sooner instead of pursuing these pursuits like climbing mountains. But it does feel like I\u2019ve turned a little bit of a page that year, this last year, at least in my recreational pursuits, but I\u2019d like to think I was living pretty intentionally before then, so it\u2019s not like, oh, I got to quit working and spend more time with my family or playing or something like that. I was doing all that stuff before, so I think I have pretty good balance on life and that balance is pretty similar now to how it was a year ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=211.33\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">03:31<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I\u2019ve heard that doctors actually make terrible patients. Do you think you\u2019re a good patient?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=217.57\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">03:37<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m actually thrilled with how I was as a patient. I had a pretty bad head injury, obviously aside from the CSF leak and all the fractures, I was badly concussed, and so I was asking the same questions over and over again for several days, and that beautiful thing about it is I\u2019m reassured that I\u2019m not a mean drunk because I spend most of the time in the ICU thanking people repetitively for taking care of me. So I was actually kind of happy to hear that at least I was nice about my head injury, so I think I wasn\u2019t that bad of a patient.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=251.26\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">04:11<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, well, I can see that. Yeah, you had this, you approached it with a sense of gratitude, like I saw your YouTube video, I watched that yesterday, and you talked about the heroes of your life and people who came to help you out and from actually hearing you firsthand, it sounds like this injury was even more material. I didn\u2019t realize how injured you were.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=270.43\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">04:30<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>There were two helicopters involved in getting me from that mountain to the trauma center. It was pretty amazing actually, that I got there in less than three hours from the injury, but I definitely needed a trauma center, there\u2019s no doubt about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=281.86\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">04:41<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It sounds like it\u2019s not slowing you down that much because right before we got on, you were talking about you\u2019re going to go canyoneering and coming up, so<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=287.86\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">04:47<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I\u2019m pretty excited. It\u2019s my first trip canyoneering since before that fall, so I\u2019m a little nervous about it, but I think I\u2019m ready to go and able to travel and doing other fun stuff, playing hockey and skiing, and I was out running yesterday, so I\u2019m happy. I can still do lots of fun things that I enjoy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=303.46\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">05:03<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>What is Canyoneering?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=304.9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">05:04<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>This is an interesting thing that a lot of people that don\u2019t live in this part of the country have never heard of, but along the Colorado Plateau, which is basically southwestern Colorado and southern Utah and northern Arizona, there are slot canyons. They\u2019re basically formed by water running through sandstone and exploring those slot cans is the sport known as canyoneering. It involves repelling and swimming and route finding and hiking and teamwork, some climbing, and so it\u2019s a lot of fun for those of us who do it, but it\u2019s definitely a niche sport. I\u2019ve been a lot of very cool places that people have no idea exists even when they go to national parks like Zion or Arches or Grand Canyon.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=345.55\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">05:45<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I was reading a \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/44J7wHt\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">A Walk in the Park<\/a>\u201d. I was just looking it up by Kevin Fedarko. Have you read that book?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=351.13\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">05:51<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I have not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=351.79\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">05:51<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s about him hiking the entire Grand Canyon. So there is some of this discussion of Stock canyons and stuff like that, and they first start out and they\u2019re totally unprepared. He used to river raft it and he was like, oh, I can river raft the whole thing. But then I think hiking,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=366.14\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">06:06<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Hiking, it\u2019s a different job. You got to change levels as you hike through it and the changes of the levels is the challenging part, aside from the fact that this thing\u2019s like 260 miles long or something.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=376.04\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">06:16<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Exactly. Maybe you can take this on. This could be one of your bucket list things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=381.44\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">06:21<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve looked at a lot of that train. In fact, just a couple of weeks ago we were out at Torah weep with the kids for spring break and peering over the edge. This is the only place of the Grand Canyon where you can really look over the edge and look directly down at the river, and at that point the canyon is about 2,500 feet high, but it\u2019s a pretty impressive viewpoint.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=399.15\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">06:39<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, yeah, for sure. We hiked Mount Whitney with my oldest son when he was 13, and that goes to 14,000. I remember we kind of got up the saddle and looked over and you\u2019re looking down like 4,000 feet. It\u2019s pretty crazy. I\u2019d never seen anything like that and you really are like, wow,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=416\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">06:56<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That east face of Mount Whitney is a fun climb too. I got a chance to do that. It\u2019s been quite a while. It\u2019s been decades actually, I think since I climbed Mount Whitney, but we came up that face. It\u2019s longer than we thought it was going to be, that\u2019s for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=427.43\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">07:07<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s the biggest thing I\u2019ve ever done, and I just remember going from, I think you started at eight, then you go 10, 12 at 12,000. I was like, oh, we\u2019re right there and then I\u2019m slowing my pace of making progress slowed to our crawl. It took us forever to get to the last part of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=442.13\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">07:22<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s pretty impressive. Health will affect you until your body gets used to it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=445.91\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">07:25<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Has this affected you talk about the chapters one closing and I guess the next one. How do you think about the next chapter and has your orientation about the work that you\u2019re doing and the why behind your work changed?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=458.06\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">07:38<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s interesting. I just got a feedback from a bunch of our employees. They tell me I\u2019m much nicer now and I\u2019m like, was I jerked before? I didn\u2019t realize it, but so apparently I\u2019m nicer than I used to be. I\u2019m also told that I\u2019m much more mission focused. I think that\u2019s been a gradual change over the years and I think that comes just with building wealth. When you have enough, you stop caring about more money quite so much. Well, what else am I going to leave this planet besides a little bit of money at this point, we\u2019re not going to spend all of our money. We\u2019ve got to figure out where that\u2019s going to go when we\u2019re done and what else do I want to do? What do I want to do with the rest of my life? I\u2019m not quite 50 years old and I feel like I\u2019ve still got a lot I can give, so I\u2019m definitely more focused on purpose and mission and those sorts of things. As you become financially independent, you start reading different books. Instead of reading how to invest, how to get Wealthy, you start looking for books which are much less common on how to be wealthy, and so I\u2019ve been reading books this year like <a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3RFFiWw\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">The Purpose Code<\/a> and <a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4jUeDBe\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Die with Zero<\/a> and what do you do when you get what you want? Those sorts of books, and I suspect that\u2019s probably affected the way I think about some of this stuff as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=529.76\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">08:49<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Any big takeaways from those books? I mean, die With Zero, people have talked a lot about it. I haven\u2019t heard of the Purpose Code, but check it out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=536.1\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">08:56<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Die With Zero\u2019s. Big takeaway is most people are dying the wealthiest they\u2019ve been their entire life and he sees that as a huge tragedy. The older you get, the less well you can exchange money for awesome life experiences, so he actually advocates that you actually hit your peak wealth between age 45 and 60 and at that point your wealth\u2019s declining because you\u2019re using it for good, whether that\u2019s experiences for yourself or people you care about or giving it away to charity or whatever his idea was basically, yeah, really die with zero. Now that\u2019s kind of an unattainable goal, but as a mindset, I think there\u2019s a lot of value there for those of us who have accumulated wealth and maybe aren\u2019t using it in the best way we could.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=578.64\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">09:38<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>No, that\u2019s a great insight. Yeah, I can totally see that. I\u2019ve seen some stuff too around you need to look at a lot of people track their net worth, is it going up into the right, but they also need to track the same time how much human capital do they have left and what your probability of being alive and a lot of folks are. Yeah, they\u2019re indexing to, I want to have plenty of money when I\u2019m 95, and then<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=597.39\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">09:57<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>What exactly do they think they\u2019re going to be doing with the money at 95? Right? I mean, part of life is just balancing current you with the needs of future you, and that can be challenging for sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=609.6\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">10:09<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>When you think about your own time, right? There\u2019s your work, your family, the White Coat Investor, which is a larger conglomerate of things. Are there other big things that you\u2019re putting your energy into?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=619.26\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">10:19<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I mean, I have some volunteer work through our church and community and that sort of thing. One of the fun things about getting to this stage of my career and this stage of our family is to see my wife get all excited about career. Like stuff. For example, she ran for office last year. She is an elected member of the district school board, and so she\u2019s been having a heck of a time being on the school board. Of course, that\u2019s not always a can be a thankless job and you get a lot of flack when you\u2019re on the school board, so it\u2019s been fun to watch her pursue some of her interests as well. That\u2019s probably been one of the bigger changes in the last year for us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=655.38\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">10:55<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Do you think you\u2019ll run for public office?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=657.06\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">10:57<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>No, I think I\u2019m completely unelectable now with 3000 or 4,000 blog posts and 500, 600 podcasts out there. Surely any political opponent I ever had would be able to just find something that would keep me from ever being electable that I\u2019d set on some podcast or something. So I don\u2019t think so. I\u2019m not really interested in it, number one. Number two, I\u2019m pretty sure,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=681.12\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">11:21<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know. I think you seem pretty electable. How has it evolved over the past? You\u2019ve been doing this for a while. I think it started in 2011, right? It was like a blog and then I know you\u2019ve bought other properties and podcasts and YouTube and stuff like that and courses. How do you see it evolving?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=696.87\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">11:36<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>The mission really hasn\u2019t changed much at all. The goal is to be the spot for docs. The docs that want to learn about finance or want referrals to financial service professionals or companies. Basically we won\u2019t want to help docs stop doing dumb stuff with their money. When I say docs, I\u2019m also talking about other high income professionals and frankly, 98% of it\u2019s the same for everybody. Let\u2019s be honest. That part hasn\u2019t changed at all. Now mostly what we\u2019ve done is realized that some people like to learn in different ways than others. Some people like online courses, some people like video, some people like audio, some people like written stuff. Some people want emailed newsletters, other people want books or they want to go to a live conference, and so we try to package up the same information into whatever way you like to learn and give it to you that way.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=743.74\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">12:23<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s a lot of what we\u2019ve done over the years as White Coat Investor. Most of it at this point, it\u2019s just keeping it going, knowing that every year 30,000 people come out of medical school and they still need to know the stuff. The last year is people needed to learn. So I don\u2019t know that we have dramatic changes. We are always trying to figure out ways to serve people a little better, whether that\u2019s bringing one service in house or taking one out of house or finding a different person to refer to. But for the most part it\u2019s similar work what I was doing a decade ago.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=773.65\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">12:53<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Do you think you\u2019re going to keep running it for the foreseeable future? Would you ever consider selling it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=777.49\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">12:57<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019d consider selling it. You\u2019re making an offer. I mean, we didn\u2019t attain it for sure, but as I get further in life, I care less about the money that offer would bring in as much as trying to figure out how this thing can outlive me, and that part\u2019s a little bit trickier it turns out than just figuring out a valuation to sell.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=794.62\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">13:14<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>For sure. It\u2019s hard. Well, I\u2019m glad you\u2019re making progress and you\u2019re doing good work in the world, which is awesome. So I thought we could talk a little bit about just what\u2019s happening in the world a bit. I know it\u2019s been a kind crazy time and we\u2019re personal finance experts, but<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=808.9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">13:28<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I guess I should ask, when does this run right? Because it feels like everything\u2019s changing day by day here in April of 2025. Every day is different than the day before politically<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=818.41\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">13:38<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>For sure. It is basically impossible to keep up with it. I did a podcast. I tried to get in front of it early on right after Liberation Day, the tariff thing, and we rolled a podcast Tuesday morning and we put it out Wednesday evening, and in that time the market moved or the Dow would move like 2000 points or there was a 10% swing one day and a 15% mean it was crazy. So I was like, everything changed. So<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=841.45\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">14:01<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>There was one day in there, which was probably the most profitable day of your life if you\u2019re like most people. The market went up 10% that day, and if you multiply 10% by the amount of money you have in stocks, that\u2019s probably more money than you\u2019ve ever made on any other day of your life. That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=855.07\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">14:15<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. I\u2019m thankful I took what I know is our suggestions, which is just stay the course and don\u2019t sell. I mean, I do remember talking to friends and just seeing online people were freaking out. They normally do. Some people were thinking about it selling and I think some people probably did sell the day before or whatever. It\u2019s really, it\u2019s hard to watch that happen. Yeah. But do you have any take on what happens here? Do you think things will settle down or do you think this continues on for a while?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=883.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">14:43<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, my crystal ball is cloudy as usual, right? I have no idea what the future holds. I don\u2019t know what interest rates are going to be in a year. I don\u2019t know what the Dow Jones is going to be at in a year. I don\u2019t know which asset class is going to outperform others or how bitcoin\u2019s going to do or how gold\u2019s going to do or anything like that. And I think it\u2019s fascinating that people ask those questions that they think somebody knows, right? When all evidence is to the contrary, then nobody knows and nobody\u2019s going to know, and you really ought to quit asking the question because you\u2019re not going to get any sort of useful information as an answer. And if you\u2019re not convinced of that, I would suggest you start keeping a journal, write down your own predictions, write down the predictions of others, be as specific as you can, and then go back and look at it in three months, in six months, in a year and two years, and it won\u2019t take you long before you convince yourself that you need an investing method that doesn\u2019t require you to be able to predict the future to be successful.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=936.41\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">15:36<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>You almost surely do not have that ability. And if you do, there\u2019s no way that you should only be managing your money, you should be managing billions of dollars.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=944.72\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">15:44<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I think that\u2019s a great point. How do you get this insight that it is impossible? And I know you can read and stuff like this. I think people are so they want to be able to explain things, so they want stories and I feel like that\u2019s what a lot of financial services gives. It\u2019s like gets in front of you like, Hey, here\u2019s what\u2019s happening, do this or that. You can be confident because telling you what to do. And the reality is nobody knows.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=968.63\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">16:08<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. I mean what we need to have the proper perspective is experience and you can get a certain amount of experience in your own lifetime, but what you should really ideally do is borrow experience from history. And I think it\u2019s important to understand financial history. I mean, every time something crazy happens in the markets, it feels like this time it\u2019s different. It will always feel like that. It\u2019s supposed to feel like that in some respects. It is different. We\u2019ve never dramatically increased tariffs like they\u2019ve been increased in the last month. That\u2019s never happened before. It is different this time in that respect, but markets are resilient. Markets have had shocks like this before, and once you go through enough of \u2019em, you realize that you\u2019ve seen this movie before and you know how it ends, right? In 2022, we raised interest rates like 4% in a few months.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1024.07\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">17:04<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That had never happened before. It led to the worst bond market returns that we\u2019ve ever had in a single year in 2022, and it felt like this time it\u2019s different. In 2020, we had a worldwide pandemic. People were keeling over in China, in ICUs, in Ireland, or not Ireland, Italy, and it was starting to hit New York City. It felt like this time is different. And where were we at a year later? Where were we at five years later? The markets are resilient. Companies that were profitable five years ago are mostly still profitable today. These are the most profitable corporations in the history of the world, and if you go back through history like this, you realize that you expect a 20% drop in the stock market on average about once every three years. Well, when was our last one? It was three years ago. We\u2019re down.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1075.74\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">17:55<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know what it is today as we record this, 13, 14%, something like that. This is an expected event. If you didn\u2019t expect this, you don\u2019t understand what you\u2019re doing. Investing in stocks, they drop like this from time to time and that\u2019s just part of the game. The point is, this is money. You\u2019re not going to spend for 10 or 20 or 30 or 40 or 50 years and is it likely to still be down 50 years from now? No, it is not. So you just got to learn to stay the course. Jack Bogle was famous for saying, this is my most important advice. If there\u2019s one thing, you got to understand that you got to pick a reasonable course and you got to stay with it through thick and thin, and I think that\u2019s still really good investing advice.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1117.44\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">18:37<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It feels like you learned this pretty early as you got started. You were, I know, involved in Bogleheads really early on. It\u2019s like how did you get started in your own journey here and come to these realizations?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1128.57\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">18:48<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I got mad. That\u2019s what happened. I realized I had been taken advantage of, not with a lot of money. I didn\u2019t have a lot of money. I could have lost everything I had and it wouldn\u2019t have been a lot of money, but I was mad. I felt like the financial services industry was taken advantage of that every interaction I\u2019d had with him, it ended up ling a realtor, a mortgage lender, twice a recruiter, an insurance agent, a financial advisor. I just had felt like I\u2019d been ripped off. And so that motivated me to learn and I started reading. I lived across the street from a used bookstore and I went over there and started grabbing used financial books and I\u2019d read \u2019em. I read a whole bunch of terrible financial books. There are a lot of really bad financial books out there, but I read some good ones and after a while I realized, well, the good ones are saying the same things.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1171.26\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">19:31<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And one of the early ones I read was called The Four Pillars of Investing by Bill Bernstein. He\u2019s a neurologist turned kind of financial guru, and one of the four pillars was learning financial history. And so he went through that and he loves writing about history. He\u2019s done all kinds of history books, financial history books kind of stuff. But once you get that perspective over centuries of financial markets and developments and stuff, you just look at the world differently. It\u2019s almost like you feel like you have a superpower looking around. You\u2019re like, nobody else understands that this is going to go away in a few months. And that\u2019s the truth. Yes. Sometimes things change that are dramatic that make a difference for centuries. At the end of the Bronze Age, for instance, a bunch of Eastern European civilizations really tanked and nobody came back for centuries. But since then, the markets have been pretty darn resilient and I wouldn\u2019t bet on the end of the Bronze Age again, you\u2019re probably much more likely to get something the equivalent of the.com crash.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1230.6\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">20:30<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>When you\u2019ve studied history, do the problems that led you to get mad, did they persist? Were they existing back then? Was there a lack of transparency and a lack of alignment?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1241.7\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">20:41<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, another one of the pillars in Bernstein\u2019s book was learning how to interact with the financial services industry. And you realize that the people that go into financial services, this isn\u2019t a hundred percent true, but it\u2019s generally true. They\u2019re not the same people that become kindergarten teachers. They have a little bit different motivation and you really have to put your business hat on when you walk into the financial services world and realize people are there to make money from you and you are the source of their profits. And so you got to be a little more on your guard and realize that maybe you ought to treat some of those people as though they\u2019re a criminal trying to rob you. And when you have that mindset in place, then you interact a little bit better with the financial services industry.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1284.4\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">21:24<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s so funny talking to you. I mean, I agree with what you\u2019re saying and also<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1289.08\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">21:29<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>You somewhat work in the financial services.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1291.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">21:31<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, we interact with the financial services. I mean, I\u2019m in financial services, but I interact with the community and I do think these issues persist just because of how the industry operates, which is generally it\u2019s kind of opaque and yeah, you are the product versus the customer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1307.44\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">21:47<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>At least the information is out there now, prior to really the internet, probably this information wasn\u2019t out there. You had to go dive through obscure periodicals in the library or read books to really get a sense for how this stuff works. At least now, if you want to learn it, it\u2019s pretty quick to learn.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1326.88\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">22:06<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, I think it\u2019s changing. I mean, I remember I was reading back our podcast from 2019 and when I first met you and Tim Reta was getting going with Next Generation personal finance, and that\u2019s become a thing, and now he\u2019s educated, I think 50,000 teachers and they\u2019re teaching 5 million kids a year. It\u2019s incredible. So literacy, financial literacy is getting taught, which is great. The information is out there. I do think it\u2019s a generational thing. I really feel like the millennials are smarter than Gen Xers and the Gen Zs are smarter than millennials and the Alphas are probably going to be smarter than the,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1361.53\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">22:41<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And hopefully that keeps going, but it\u2019s pretty awesome when you think about, it\u2019s a little bit like reaching doctors. What we\u2019re trying to do is help doctors be more financially literate. I think it actually does improve patient care. And likewise, if you just make the teachers more financially literate, they\u2019ll naturally teach it to their students. And so you really get this multiplier effect where you end up helping a lot more people than you think you are initially.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1384.48\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">23:04<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. As you\u2019ve built wealth, you talked about how your orientation on purpose has changed. Do you feel like things are getting more complicated? I know that you probably have to think more about your estate and taxes and stuff like that. Is life getting more complex for you or are you keeping it simple?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1400.29\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">23:20<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>This is a challenge for us. Me, because I\u2019m a hobbyist. I mean, I\u2019m like, all right, one of the things I did a few years ago is we added some I bonds to our portfolio. I bonds are cool, they\u2019re inflation index, they\u2019re working a little bit differently from tips, but they\u2019re cool. The problem with IBOs is you can only buy $10,000 a year, so it really doesn\u2019t work to add IBOs to your portfolio once you\u2019re already wealthy. And so I went through all this trouble of opening up treasury direct accounts, one for myself, one for my wife, one for our trust, and bought IBOs every year. And here I am three or four or five years later and still have an insignificant amount of our portfolio in IBOs. Is there anything wrong with IBOs? No. Can they be a meaningful part of portfolio? Absolutely. Are they a meaningful part of our portfolio? No. All they\u2019re doing is adding complexity to our lives. We are getting no portfolio benefit out of having what we have in I bonds. So you start thinking about things like that going, we got to simplify things like this. So we look into simplifying things a lot now, but is our financial life complex? Yeah, it\u2019s<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1464.74\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">24:24<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>What are some of the things that you do to simplify your life?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1466.96\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">24:26<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Our financial life?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1467.95\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">24:27<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, your financial life.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1468.91\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">24:28<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, for instance, I filed in 12 states a couple of years ago. Well, last year I filed in nine and hopefully this year it\u2019ll be six or seven. So that simplifies my life somewhat obviously reduces my tax preparation costs, but I have to be a little bit careful which private investments I invest in if I don\u2019t want to be filing in multiple states and where those investments are located and whether they do some sort of composite return and those sorts of things. That\u2019s one example of something that maybe people don\u2019t think about going in, but can make your financial life a little more complex going out. The other thing I think about from time to time is starting a rental property empire. I think it\u2019s a great way to build wealth. I think it\u2019s a good way to preserve wealth. I think it\u2019s worked for many, many people. It\u2019s not something I need in my life then. And if I start buying a bunch of direct rental properties, all it\u2019s going to do is give me a whole bunch of schedule to file on my taxes and phone calls and things to deal with, whereas we\u2019ve already got a reasonable investing plan if we follow is going to work just fine to meet all of our financial goals.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1530.02\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">25:30<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>When you invest, is it primarily, it sounds like you\u2019re doing some private alternative stuff, direct investing that you\u2019ve done and then you\u2019ve got stocks and bonds and you\u2019ve got your business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1540.52\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">25:40<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I mean our investment portfolio is kind of boring. It\u2019s 60% stocks, 20% bonds, 20% real estate. That\u2019s what it\u2019s been for years and years and years. And I don\u2019t try to go, oh, the tariffs are hitting. Should I put more in international real estate? Nope. Third of it or international stocks? Nope. A third of it\u2019s in international stocks. It was in 2006, it wasn\u2019t 2016. It will be in 2026. And sometimes international stocks will do better than us stocks. Sometimes they won\u2019t. I don\u2019t know when that\u2019s going to be, so I\u2019m just going to keep the same percentage year after year. And the beautiful thing about that is all the stuff I don\u2019t have to listen to or read or think about. And there\u2019s a lot of power in that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1581.74\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">26:21<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>When you think about your positions, is it really like you chop it up, inequities across international, domestic, large cap, whatever it is, some mix, but it\u2019s pretty straightforward?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1591.61\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">26:31<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s pretty straightforward. I mean, we do a little bit of small value tilting in our portfolio. I have for years that hasn\u2019t paid off by the way. I mean a total market approach or even a large growth for the last five plus years has definitely been more profitable than a small value tilt. But because of that tilt, we have four stock funds, total Stock market Fund, the total International Stock Market Fund, and a small value US fund and a small value international fund. That\u2019s our stock funds. That\u2019s 60% of our portfolio now because of a lot of it\u2019s in a taxable account, each of those has a tax loss harvesting partner. So I may have eight funds in that taxable account, but it\u2019s four asset classes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1632.72\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">27:12<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Do you do the tax loss harvesting stuff yourself?<\/p>\n<p>Announcer (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1635.51\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">27:15<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yes, I do all the portfolio management myself. It\u2019s one of those things that, number one, it\u2019s not that hard to learn, I don\u2019t think. And so I learned it early on and I\u2019ve been doing it ever since. When you do it with a four figure portfolio, it\u2019s no big deal to do it with a five figure portfolio or six or seven or whatever. It\u2019s the same game. So I find it easy. And secondly, I\u2019d just be unhappy with if someone else was doing it, I\u2019d be hassle and I might be a terrible client, so I might as well just take care of myself.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1662.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">27:42<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And how often are you rebalancing and trying to capture it?<\/p>\n<p>Announcer (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1664.88\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">27:44<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Rebalancing I think is totally overrated. Everyone gets into the ideal way to rebalance using some sort of backtested thing. And the truth is nobody knows. Nobody knows. And there probably isn\u2019t an ideal way. Should you rebalance in some way at some point? Yes. If you\u2019re doing something to rebalance, you\u2019re doing it right. Don\u2019t go any further than that. If you\u2019re trying to rebalance every week, you\u2019re just creating work for yourself and you\u2019re probably hurting your returns more than you\u2019re helping. So don\u2019t make this too complex. So mostly I just direct new money at whatever is lagging and try to bring the portfolio back in the direction of being balanced and that\u2019s good enough.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1707.69\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">28:27<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And how about tax loss harvesting?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1709.91\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">28:29<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve done lots of tax loss harvesting over the years. I did a little bit more this month. Obviously the market\u2019s going crazy. It\u2019s pretty easy to tax loss harvest right now at this point, I have more tax losses than I\u2019m ever going to use against my ordinary income. So barring a sale of our house or a sale of the white coat investor is a business, I\u2019m never going to use up all of my tax losses. So I\u2019m pretty cautious about getting more. Now. I do grab more when they\u2019re easy to grab, but I make sure it costs me nothing to get them. But does tax harvesting add a little bit to a portfolio, but it\u2019s up there with rebalancing, right? This is a relatively minor portfolio task. The big problem people have, the reason people aren\u2019t wealthier than they are is they don\u2019t put more money in their accounts. And when you compare rebalancing and tax loss harvesting and stuff to figuring out a way to make more money and save more money, more of it in your accounts, they\u2019re pretty small chump change kind of amounts.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1768.38\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">29:28<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And I guess in terms of building taxable wealth, so do you generally save in your tax deferred first or when you\u2019re saving money, are you kind of like Roth tax deferred and taxable?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1780.38\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">29:40<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I don\u2019t see any reason to put money in a taxable account until you\u2019ve maxed out your tax protected accounts. So the first thing we fund every year is our HSA. That\u2019s usually January 2nd. We\u2019re doing backdoor Roth IRAs on January 2nd and third, and I try to max out any 4 0 1 Ks available to me early in the year as well. And after that I got nowhere else to put another in a taxable account. It used to be we didn\u2019t even have a taxable account and now it\u2019s our largest account. That\u2019s a good problem to have. It\u2019s hard to complain about that. That just means we made a lot of money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1812.25\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">30:12<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s awesome. You obviously make money as a doctor, but you\u2019re also making money through the business essentially that\u2019s driving it and I guess you\u2019re capturing returns for your real estate stuff. You\u2019re getting distributions from<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1824.34\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">30:24<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That? Yeah, I mean we have portfolio income, dividends and interest from stocks and bonds. We have rents from some of the private real estate investments. We have occasional capital gains and then of course business income from the white coat investor and the white coat investor pays my wife and I both a salary and I have a little bit of clinical income too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1844.8\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">30:44<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s good. Well diversified. Good job. That\u2019s amazing. Yeah, I feel like owning a business completely is the lowest risk path for wealth building in this country. It\u2019s very tax efficient and through that and just through running a profitable company, you can do incredibly well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1862.59\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">31:02<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I would not argue with that point that you can do incredibly well. I think it can be the most profitable way to use your money to use your time, et cetera. I would not describe it as the lowest risk way though I think there are far lower risk ways to build wealth, maybe not to such an extreme. Obviously if you\u2019re going to build the next meta, the next alphabet, then you\u2019re not going to do that being somebody else\u2019s employee. But I\u2019ve thought a lot about what is the most producible way to build wealth in a relatively short time period, and I think it\u2019s using a reasonable amount of leverage in building a portfolio of short-term rental properties. Is it another job? Yes, it is another job, but you can eventually outsource of a lot of the parts of that job. It\u2019s a reasonable use of leverage that can further boost your returns.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1915.51\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">31:55<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And the truth is you\u2019re running a hotel business, not just a housing business, but I think it\u2019s got a lot going for it if your goal is to get rich quick. I think that\u2019s one of the more reproducible ways to get there. And it\u2019s not quick. It\u2019s not in two months. It\u2019s going to be 5, 10, 15 years, but I think it\u2019s one of the more reproducible ways to do it as opposed to trying to start the next white coat investor. I mean since we started this, there\u2019s been another hundred plus physician financial blogs out there and only about three or four of \u2019em have ever made any significant amount of money at all, and none of \u2019em have been as successful as the white coat investor. I would say trying to do this is the risky thing, whereas there\u2019s lots of other ways to build all the wealth you\u2019re ever going to want without taking that sort of risk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1961.48\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">32:41<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I think that makes sense. Franchises or<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1964.96\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">32:44<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Oh yeah, they\u2019ve already been proven, right? You don\u2019t think your subway\u2019s going to make money. The subway\u2019s going to make money, put it on the right corner and it\u2019ll make $80,000 a year like the other subway and you buy enough of \u2019em, you\u2019ll have be a subway millionaire<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1978.17\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">32:58<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>And I agree with you on real estate, but it is a job that\u2019s like building a business. I mean you do it for 10 or 15 years and you end up with whatever, a hundred doors or a thousand doors or whatever. It\u2019s<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=1987.94\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">33:07<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>For sure it\u2019s building a business, no doubt about it. I just think it\u2019s one that\u2019s a little more reproducible. You can get help from people who have done that same business just in a different location. They don\u2019t mind helping you at all, not competing with them, whereas if you\u2019re trying to build the next bold in, you\u2019re competing with the entire planet, it\u2019s more challenging.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2007.92\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">33:27<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I know. I know. It\u2019s interesting. How about your family and your kids? So I\u2019ve seen this with my friends as they get wealthier, it\u2019s like they start to really think about how much they disclose to their kids about what they have and what might happen and how do they keep them aligned in terms of making sure they\u2019re motivated and not going to blow it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2025.56\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">33:45<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>So estate planning becomes much more important to you as you build wealth and as you become older, there\u2019s no doubt about it. And for a lot of people, estate planning means talking to an attorney and putting some papers together. For us, estate planning is a lot more significant than that. It involves teaching our children and getting to know our children and talking to our children about when they\u2019re going to inherit money and why and how and those sorts of things. You can really blow it. You can really ruin somebody by giving them the wrong amount of money at the wrong time in the wrong way. So our estate plan is essentially four chunks that each of our kids will get, and the first one I think is what most people find very interesting, which is what we call the twenties fund. And so relatively small percentage of what they\u2019re likely to inherit, but it comes to \u2019em in the form of a Roth IRA for money they\u2019ve earned as teenagers that we basically give \u2019em a parental match on 5 29 to pay for college A-U-T-M-A account they can use for whatever they want in their twenties and then an HSA because there\u2019s a cool thing you can do with HSAs these days where while they\u2019re still on your family plan but they\u2019re actually not your dependent, you can put in a family contribution for them.<\/p>\n<p>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2093.78\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">34:53<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>So that\u2019s the four parts of their twenties fund and we get to watch them and see how they use this money and there\u2019s only one of \u2019em in their twenties now, but we get to see how they use their money and whether they can handle inheriting more money later.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2106.89\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">35:06<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>How do you keep visibility to their money or the money? Do you still have access to the accounts?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2111.45\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">35:11<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, up until they turn 21, I mean I\u2019m controlling it all. It\u2019s all custodial accounts. As they turn 21, the access goes away, but you\u2019re still talking to \u2019em about it and that sort of thing. Basically, if they can\u2019t manage money, they\u2019re going to inherit the later inheritance is in a different format than they would, they\u2019re much more likely to get a spend thrift trust kind of inheritance than a lump sum kind of inheritance. And then we tell \u2019em, you got to have a career. You got to go do something getting any more money from us until you\u2019re 40. And so they get a chunk at 40, a chunk at 50 and a chunk at 60, and the idea there is three strikes. You\u2019re out if you blow it, you got to blow it three times and the first one probably pays off their mortgage and the second one maybe makes them financially independent and the third one, they\u2019re just managing for the next generation. That\u2019s kind of our plan for now after we die with Zero, he really advocates for inheritances between 26 and 35, which is earlier than we were planning to really give significant amounts of money. So maybe if they prove that they can handle it, maybe they\u2019ll get some money a little bit earlier, but right now if we got hit by a bus, they wouldn\u2019t get anything other than their twenties fund until they turned 40.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2177.28\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">36:17<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I think it\u2019s so interesting. As you have more money, you can afford to be more generous and it can change people\u2019s lives. There\u2019s someone in my family and he is in his thirties and he is like they want to buy a house and they\u2019ve been saving up their money, but they\u2019ve got relatives that have more money. They\u2019re probably never going to use their money. If we could inherit some money, that would be really helpful for us. But also they\u2019re working hard. They have a career and all that stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2202.45\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">36:42<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s true. Money at 30 is way more useful than money at 50. I don\u2019t need an inheritance from my parents now. It would not help me whatsoever. I\u2019d just be managing it for the next generation. So there\u2019s a lot of wisdom there in kind of that die with zero philosophy to give inheritances early and give to charity early and spend your money early when you can really still get maximum memories and life experiences out of it. Obviously you have to balance that with not eating Alpo in your eighties, but most Americans just don\u2019t save enough money, let\u2019s be honest. But of those who do, very few of them figure out how to spend it well, that transition is a lot harder than most people think it is if you go from saving money to spending money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2241.03\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">37:21<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. Do you see that in your community where people coming to you now as you must be having doctors that have going through their careers and you\u2019re 20 years into this, 20 plus years into it, they\u2019re hitting retirement or whatever. They\u2019re getting to that point. Are they showing up and saying, Hey, I need help with this, I got to think this through.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2258.28\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">37:38<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, for sure they are. A lot of \u2019em, even if they started at the beginning of their career with me when I started doing White Coat Investor, they\u2019re getting to the point where they\u2019re starting to think about early retirement. Those sorts of things are in their fifties now, and so definitely people are thinking about that. But this is a challenge. For many years I\u2019ve been writing about how there\u2019s five money activities you got to master. There\u2019s earning, saving, investing, spending and giving. And the truth is almost nobody\u2019s good at all five of them naturally, if you\u2019re a natural saver like I am, you usually get pretty good at earning and saving and investing and then you suck at spending. So for five plus years, five or 10 years, I\u2019ve been trying to get better at spending and I\u2019m not just talking about spending money, I\u2019m talking about spending money well on things that actually make me happier, that improve the lives of others that I\u2019m getting a good deal on, for instance, and those sorts of things. Spending can take just as much work as saving money does.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2312.46\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">38:32<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, many people are good at, they\u2019re able to spend lots of money, but they necessarily spend it well and they get going on that early versus the saving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2320.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">38:40<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s a real bummer to blow a bunch of your money on something that doesn\u2019t even make you happier.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2323.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">38:43<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s right. Understanding that about yourself is super important. There\u2019s a dirt bike sitting in my garage. My middle son was made some money in the summer and he\u2019s like, I\u2019m going to spend two grand on a dirt bike. I\u2019m like, whatever. And then, I mean, I think he enjoyed having it, but he\u2019s not necessarily getting maximum utilization out of it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2339.5\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">38:59<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, the worst part about it\u2019s, it\u2019s in your garage. I<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2341.9\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">39:01<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Know. Exactly. I guess last question on the estate stuff, this stuff resonates a lot, but when you zoom out, how do you think about the mix of what is going to your family? Sounds like family and charity is where your money\u2019s going. Is it going anywhere else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2355.97\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">39:15<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Not really, although we\u2019ve made a significant point of giving to nieces and nephews. So we\u2019ve funded, I don\u2019t know, 35, 5 20 nines. I think one of \u2019em has been cleaned out so far. Only one niece and nephew has actually graduated from college, 35, 5 20. So we\u2019ve offered them a match on any money they earn themselves and put in the 5 29. We give \u2019em a two to one match, and so that adds up to a chunk of change every year when there\u2019s 35 of \u2019em. So that\u2019s been a cool way, but that\u2019s basically what we\u2019ve done. We\u2019ve done charity and we\u2019ve got plans for our kids and then we\u2019ve reached out to the nieces and nephews. I\u2019m sure down the road there\u2019ll probably be something for grandkids as well. But yeah, charity versus family I think is the decision most people are struggling with. How much do you leave to each?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2397.88\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">39:57<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I\u2019m going to study these five activities in terms of things to master with your money, which is good. As we kind of close out here a little bit about, we appreciate you guys have been partner with us at Bolden at White Coat Investor, and I dunno if you have any feedback from people that are using the platform or things that you\u2019re seeing. Are people getting value from it there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2419.12\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">40:19<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I think so. I think people find it useful. People love calculators, they love anything that will project things out, and it is good to do that, especially if you don\u2019t feel super comfortable using a financial calculator or a spreadsheet. If you\u2019re a total money nerd, you probably figured out how to do those things, but most people aren\u2019t total money nerds. They would like a little bit of software to help them make these hard decisions and there are so many hard decisions out there. Two of the hardest ones are the Roth question, whether to do Roth or traditional contributions, whether to do Roth conversions. That\u2019s a hard one. Another hard one is paying off debt versus investing. These are hard decisions. Having any sort of a platform or software that can help you to inform those decisions, obviously there\u2019s still lots of value judgment and variables you don\u2019t even know for years and years that go into these decisions, but to have a little bit of software that can help with that I think provides a lot of value to a lot of people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2478.67\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">41:18<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s really how we are thinking about it. How do we help people get educated, see what\u2019s possible, make informed decisions about what to do next? This kind of next best action for my money is the perpetual problem across all these platforms, and that\u2019s something that we\u2019re definitely working on. Any other big things that you think that your audience would love to see in this area?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2502.92\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">41:42<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I mean, what everyone would love to see is one very inexpensive program that does everything for them. So they never need an accountant, they never need an attorney, they never need a financial advisor and just take care of it all for \u2019em. I mean, that\u2019s what people want and it\u2019s fun to see the developments in the FinTech space. I saw some software the other day that combined filing for an LLC with filing your taxes and did both of those services for you. And so it\u2019s interesting to see what people are coming up with, but I think the successful platforms and software pieces are be continually adding more features as the years go on, and especially with the advent of ai, being able to add maybe even education component into that. AI education right now I think is very hit or miss. You never know what you\u2019re going to get when you type into it, but I suspect over the years that\u2019s going to improve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2557.13\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">42:37<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I think we\u2019re getting closer to this point where you\u2019re going to have more people that are better and simpler tools that do more for you. Are you seeing the impact of AI in your business right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle <\/strong>(<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2567.09\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">42:47<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Well, only as the AI engine steal from us. That\u2019s the problem when you\u2019re a content creator is AI takes from your content and doesn\u2019t necessarily give you any credit for it. If you type something into Google and you get the AI answer at the top, you no longer have to go to that website. That website now doesn\u2019t have a chance to show you advertisements or make any money. So I think it really might have a very negative effect on real content creation out there, but we\u2019ll have to see as years go by, what happens.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2597.54\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">43:17<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Are you blocking the AI engines right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2600.78\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">43:20<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>No, not currently blocking them. Thought about it, and it may come a time when we need to do something like that, but hopefully this all sorts out in a way that it becomes beneficial to the people actually creating the content. Let\u2019s be honest, AI is not necessarily creating, it\u2019s not great for creating stuff. It\u2019s great for compiling and synthesizing stuff, but that all has to be created by somebody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2626.94\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">43:46<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, there\u2019s an emerging like ai, SEO search engine optimization or AI eo, right? I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s material yet though. We have the same problem. I think every content creator is running into this right now, and it is a bummer. I totally agree with you that AI is not innovating new stuff. It\u2019s consuming and regurgitating things, which can be great for some people, but necessarily great for the people who are creating the content.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2648.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">44:08<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it is probably going to contribute to over the last 15 to 20 years, it\u2019s probably been a down slope in how many people read blocks, and that\u2019ll AI will probably accelerate that trend, I would imagine.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2661.05\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">44:21<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Yeah. Awesome. Well, look, Jim, this has been great. Do you have any questions for me or anything I can ask you about or answer?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2667.29\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">44:27<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t think so. Just appreciate all you\u2019re doing to help White Coat investors to reach your financial goals.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2673.03\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">44:33<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>For everyone listening, we will link out to White Coat Investor. Jim, thanks for being on the show. It\u2019s been great to get your insights and we\u2019ll also any reviews or feedback to this are super appreciated for both of us. And thanks for taking the time to listen to Bolden Your Money. And Jim, thanks for being on the show.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Dr. Jim Dahle<\/strong> (<a href=\"https:\/\/www.rev.com\/app\/transcript\/NjgxMGZmOThhMGQxMjNkY2E0MTRhZDQ2WW5jTkxiSFZGakJs\/o\/VEMwMzcwNzc1MTQ1?ts=2691.18\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">44:51<\/a>):<\/p>\n<p>Thank you.<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.boldin.com\/retirement\/podcast-93-five-years-later-white-coat-wisdom-jim-dahle\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode, host Steve Chen reconnects with Dr. Jim Dahle, founder of The White Coat Investor, to reflect on life, money, and purpose five years after their first conversation. Jim shares the impact of a serious 2024 climbing accident, how it shaped his perspective on aging, balance, and living with intention. They dive into<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":15122,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"rank_math_lock_modified_date":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[348],"tags":[6216,6218,6217,3149,2470,3665,203],"class_list":{"0":"post-15120","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-retirement","8":"tag-coat","9":"tag-dahle","10":"tag-jim","11":"tag-podcast","12":"tag-white","13":"tag-wisdom","14":"tag-years"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15120","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=15120"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/15120\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/15122"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=15120"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=15120"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=15120"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}