{"id":11101,"date":"2025-03-03T12:56:33","date_gmt":"2025-03-03T12:56:33","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/?p=11101"},"modified":"2025-03-03T12:56:33","modified_gmt":"2025-03-03T12:56:33","slug":"podcast-88-invest-with-impact-with-toussaint-bailey","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/?p=11101","title":{"rendered":"Podcast 88: Invest with Impact with Toussaint Bailey"},"content":{"rendered":"<div>\n<p>In this episode, Steve Chen talks with Toussaint Bailey, CEO of Uplifting Capital, about aligning wealth with impact. Toussaint shares his journey from law to wealth management, where he built innovative financial structures, and ultimately to impact investing, proving that doing good and earning strong returns aren\u2019t mutually exclusive. They dive into the future of values-driven investing, the wealth transfer to women and younger generations, and how financial advisors can integrate impact into portfolios.<\/p>\n<p>Watch the video on our <a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/fqC9D-X3HXk?si=qDxVTwry9wjkZ1QA\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">YouTube Channel<\/a>:<\/p>\n<p>\n  <iframe title=\"Invest with Impact: Toussaint Bailey (ep.88)\" width=\"788\" height=\"443\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/fqC9D-X3HXk?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe><br \/>\n  <\/iframe>\n<\/p>\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-listen-now\">Listen Now<\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/the-newretirement-podcast.simplecast.com\/episodes\/toussaint-bailey\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Listen to the podcast on Simplecas<\/a><a href=\"https:\/\/the-newretirement-podcast.simplecast.com\/episodes\/fritz-gilbertom\/episodes\/ryan-vangorder\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">t<\/a> or right here:<\/p>\n<p>\n  <iframe height=\"200px\" width=\"80%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"https:\/\/player.simplecast.com\/a2c22910-60ce-4582-b94e-f2a16a111a24?dark=false\" style=\"max-width: 800px; display: block; margin: 0 auto;\"><br \/>\n  <\/iframe>\n<\/p>\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-callouts\">Callouts:<\/h3>\n<p>Website: <a href=\"http:\/\/upliftingcapital.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">UpliftingCapital.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Toussaint Bailey\u2019s <a href=\"https:\/\/www.linkedin.com\/in\/toussaint-bailey-8b174760\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">LinkedIn<\/a><\/p>\n<p>(42:49) <a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4i6PlPD\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">2030: How Today\u2019s Biggest Trends Will Collide and Reshape the Future of Everything<\/a><\/p>\n<p>(44:42) <a href=\"https:\/\/thegiin.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Global Impact Investing Network (GIIN)<\/a><\/p>\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"h-transcription\">Transcription<\/h2>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (00:00):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>This episode is brought to you by the Boldin Financial Planning Platform. Formerly NewRetirement, create a financial plan for free at Boldin.com. Welcome to the Boldin Your Money podcast. Today we have an amazing guest, Toussaint Bailey, the CEO of Uplifting Capital. Truant. Started his career as a lawyer and then moved into wealth management and then started uplifting Capital where he wanted to focus on impact investing. And so his journey is one of purpose, passion and redefining what it means to invest. With that. Toussant, welcome to our show. Thanks for making the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (00:44):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Oh, thanks for having me. Been looking forward to this for a while.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (00:46):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>For our audience, which is mostly 401k millionaires, people thinking about how to transition to financial independence or retirement, it\u2019s always great for them to hear people\u2019s journey, how they got to where they\u2019re today, so we\u2019d love to give us a few minutes on what brought you here.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (01:01):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think as pretty jagged path, which I\u2019m a big fan of, I feel like people with unique paths to wherever their final landing place is, seem to be apologists about it, but I think at least in my case, there\u2019s so much that I\u2019ve pulled from each stop along the way. So started my career in law. Both of my parents are sort of, my dad taught for a long time at the junior high school that he went to and South Central Los Angeles and continues to teach junior high school now into his late sixties. My mom ran a homeless support program for most of my adult life and has done all sorts of stuff including DARE programs, but never talked about it. Right. Never gave any pressure to go into that stuff, and so for me, going into law, I went in after graduating law school, just started to look at what seemed to be aligned and so worked at the LA City Attorney\u2019s office for a while doing environmental stuff and worked at the LA Community Redevelopment Agency during law school and got interested in that and I just found my way to give back was going into doing public law, so did a lot for cities and government agencies and learned a lot about how local politics and local municipalities function, and I did it at a private firm.<\/p>\n<p>(02:17):<\/p>\n<p>The idea was just to go into that because it was interesting and it felt good and I ended up there for over 10 years and left that as a partner. I was doing litigation there and people asked me what I did as a litigator and I always said I was a problem solver, but at some stage you start managing people and I just figured there was other contexts to be a manager of people and you get further away from some of the good you\u2019re doing sometimes, and so I started to look for the next step. For me building something unique and wealth management was really exciting. I\u2019d sort of watched my brother-in-law\u2019s trajectory as I became more senior at my law firm. He was first an accountant, then went and worked at Ed Jones, a big sort of wealth management firm, and then went out on his own just as I was making partner and he seemed to be living so much better and smiling so much more than I was in these silly battles with litigators on the other sides of cases.<\/p>\n<p>(03:10):<\/p>\n<p>And so I always have one eye on him just trying to checking out what he was doing. And sometime in 2016 he started talking about bringing advisors together, so by this time he was out on his own. He\u2019s a pretty social guy, so he was like, yeah, I have some advisors who are kind of coming to me and thinking about joining by this time. I was a couple years into being a junior partner and had all sorts of ideas about how I thought professional services business should run. Nobody wanted to hear those ideas in my law firm, but I had a willing audience in him. He was like, oh no, that sounds great, and I thought you should share equity like this, and they don\u2019t properly incentivize growing professionals. I\u2019m good at growing and retaining business. Here\u2019s how it should be done. And so I ended up writing what our wealth management firm ended up calling the manifesto.<\/p>\n<p>(03:56):<\/p>\n<p>So it was this whole idea of bringing an abundance mentality to ownership of a wealth management firm, like having fulfillment be the driving factor not only of what you\u2019re trying to provide to clients, but also wealth management being a fulfilling experience for the advisors. And so that was an idea. It was sort of crazy. We put it down on paper and I started talking to him and the other people who were considering joining him, and I slowly transitioned out a law At that point I was called chief strategist with no reason to be called chief strategist to start out with, and within a few months I took over a CEO and it was such a fun experience. We grew all centered around this whole idea of creating a fulfilling enterprise and something that brought fulfillment to clients, and I was content to do that until I thought that there was a different path for<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (04:44):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Me. How long did you do that for then?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (04:46):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So started that informally in late 2016 and did it all the way through. I think I finished right at the top of 2022.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (04:55):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Okay, so that was you and your brother basically created a new wealth management firm from scratch?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (05:01):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yes. Along with those first few people who were thinking about joining him. So there was about five of us to start out with and I was the NUN client servicing person who was tasked with building out the enterprise. Yeah,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (05:14):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Great. And then that grew to what, a couple billion dollars and then what happened got sold or something? What happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (05:20):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, so the idea of that, not to bore too much with how the equity was structured, but the whole idea was to disaggregate ownership in the enterprise from ownership in the practice. And we thought an advisor who was successful enough to go out on their own but chose to join us should be left with the full benefits of ownership in their practice, and then we would all share ownership in the enterprise that serviced those practices according to who contributed to growth and who contributed to management of that enterprise. And that would be freely shared with new people who were joining. Based on that merit, we grew and we made decisions together. Everyone had equal decision making rights, and so we got to a point in 2020 where we started to get overtures to join others and we found an attractive enough opportunity at that point, I had already had the seeds of uplifting capital in my mind, and so we knew I wasn\u2019t going to stay on for the long term with the firm, and I think everyone realized nobody wanted. My job as CCEO sounds great, but it\u2019s a ton of work and it\u2019s probably much more fun to work with clients. So yeah, we found the right partner. All of my partners from that was Enzo Wealth Management are now at that new firm, Corio happy there and I think made a good decision.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (06:33):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s pretty cool. That\u2019s interesting. And it sounds like you had a pretty innovative ownership structure and way of granting equity. I know that there\u2019s been some huge farther and savvy wealth or these, I think farther is an example, but they\u2019re trying to buy or bring together various advisors and send them, bring their practices together, group that cashflow together and those assets together and then find a, yeah,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (06:54):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And not to get too far into it yet, but there\u2019s this idea that you have to be on the polar ends of a spectrum between being a silo if you\u2019re going to collect practices and share resources or being an ensemble and you have to be the Navy and do everything the same. And we called ourselves an on silo where we thought there\u2019s a band that I think all of us want to practice in that a smart approach to managing money, but there are benefits to doing things in concert at the enterprise level and being a unified brand, everyone we brought in we were proud to be associated with, and so we wanted to be branded with and it was innovative. I think there are more doing similar things now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (07:30):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, well, farther just raised 70 million on a close to half a billion dollar valuation, so there\u2019s definitely lots of money going into this kind of model right now as a venture backed thing. So parents are do-gooders quiet, do gooders. You\u2019re like, all right, picking up on some of that, get your law degree, practice public service law, then see your brother and be like, all right, let\u2019s get into wealth management, do some cool innovative stuff there<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (07:54):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And do some good. I think I have a pattern of finding do-gooder opportunities where I am and then I get to a place where I feel like I can do more. And so that was the case with going from the law firm to going to Enzo. Enzo for me was about not only kind of seeing this way of living where you\u2019re not in contention like a litigator all the time, but also we talked about this waterfall of fulfillment, which was a little woo woo. We\u2019re in California, but it was a little woo woo for most people in the industry. But really the foundation of what we did that first stage in the waterfall was about loving and trusting relationships, and we talked to clients about that. We talked to advisors about that. And so we came to work for loving and trusting relationships. And then the second stage in that waterfall was about self-actualization.<\/p>\n<p>(08:36):<\/p>\n<p>So if we have those relationships, we create a great container for self-awareness and also self-mastery. Then beyond that, once we get there, we talked about collective impact and so coming together, doing something special, and the contention was if we get those first three things, personal rewards will fall out naturally for everyone who\u2019s associated with the firm and all of our clients. And so bringing that mindset to the firm and being in charge of driving that culture was part of my responsibility and it felt great, but for me, the impact that I wanted to have starting in 2020, the world got quiet. We realized a lot about, it was funny, people talk about the social unrest and this social awakening in 2020, but environmentally when the world shut down and we stopped, we got off the roads, we saw things flourish that we\u2019d never seen flourish.<\/p>\n<p>(09:24):<\/p>\n<p>And so there was all this perspective that came from being quiet in 2020. And at that time, ESG was all the rage. Everyone who has an asset managed firm, meant firm had an ESG product to push. I thought that there was probably a more authentic way to do that and a more accretive financially way to do that for clients in the private markets. And so in 2020 was when I started down that path first after just reflecting on my own impact journey and doing some things around that that had nothing to do with wealth, really started to look at building something better to bring individual investors proximate to the impact that they were having and also do that in a way that made, I just saw advisors as kind of wanting to do this and seeing all these problems that they wanted to affect, but it wasn\u2019t done in a way that made sense for their professional lives and it makes sense for their client\u2019s personal lives.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (10:18):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s super interesting. I really like this idea of first having a great environment that you work in with people that you like this kind of loving and trusting environment and then focusing on people\u2019s individual, I think that\u2019s the word you use and then collective impact. I think that\u2019s a powerful way to cascade, create a great environment, let people lean into their strengths, and then together have a great team that does some really good stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (10:40):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And we talked about the waterfall and those three levels and then personal rewards being that last level. We always talked about businesses going wrong or being less than satisfying when people put number four, number one,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (10:51):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (10:51):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They start with personal gain and they\u2019re like, oh, you know how we can accomplish these goals. Let\u2019s go build relationship or how I can make more money if I make myself better. And we found that having those things not be a means to an end, but actually B ends in themselves, it felt better. And B, it was actually a more effective way to do business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (11:11):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Did you just come up with this on your own or a do? Is this from a book or something?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (11:14):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It has little bits of Maslow in it, and then I do a lot in the mindfulness and emotional intelligence space, and so thought a lot about self-awareness as the building block for a lot of good things that happen in business. Self-awareness is really the foundation for empathy and empathy is foundation for good relationship. And so a lot of ingredients and a lot of good ideas from a lot of other people came together in a mix by me. I did the remix.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (11:40):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No, no, it\u2019s great. I mean totally. We talk about self-awareness here. It\u2019s the first part of this. Can people reflect and understand and listen well and through that it can make gains.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (11:50):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And it\u2019s interesting, a lot of people grapple with that being the first thing. So you talk about this and self-mastery actually come first, but we said, and I contend it\u2019s really tough to do that in a place where you don\u2019t feel psychologically safe. It\u2019s not quite unconditional in business, but you don\u2019t have trust. It\u2019s really easy to show up and look at yourself and own stuff when you have a trusting environment. And so we talked about these loving and trusting relationships being the right environment to curate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (12:22):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, that\u2019s so funny. A lot depends on the context. People here, folks talk about psychological safety. When I first heard that, I was like, ah, that sounds goofy, but I have kids that play football. It\u2019s about the team and the team as a family and trusting each other and doing well. And if you\u2019re like, oh yeah, listen, we have a great football team and the football team starts with trust and trusting your teammates because a sport where it\u2019s not an individual thing, it\u2019s very much like you have to work as a unit. That is the exact same concept of you got to have core trust in the team. Psychological safety,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (12:58):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It doesn\u2019t mean making everything or accepting everything that someone does. Part of trust is trusting that people are going to speak truth to you. We talked a lot about sandpaper at that ferment and having these tough conversations that actually smoothed out business edges. You have to trust that you\u2019re also getting candor from people and you\u2019re getting straight facts from people. So trust also includes telling people what needs to be done when it needs to be done.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (13:22):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s interesting as you grow, we hired our first head of people last year and we have started writing things down in terms how we talk to each other and how we treat each other standards for leadership. We don\u2019t over document it. I mean people should hopefully instinctively know a lot of this stuff, but it\u2019s sometimes good to reflect on it and it is tough in any growing environment making it like, okay, yeah, we got to trust each other, but it\u2019s also business. But we have to be able to communicate really clearly and hold each other accountable.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (13:54):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s hard to scale culture because how those values are reflected at each stage in the business. Trust means something different when the layers of management are two or three people deep rather than one person deep. And what you have to do to have those values reflected in a business are drastically different. And so scaling culture is really hard. I think it\u2019s an underappreciated business skill<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (14:18):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A hundred percent. Just the more we do, the farther we go in our business and we\u2019re 50 people now, it\u2019s totally different than when you\u2019re five people, 10 people, everyone knows each other. I mean really well. And all you do is just do stuff and now you\u2019re trying to be organized and get a couple of different things done. And I remember talking to a CEO EO and he had 300 people and he is like, yeah, the big difference between 30 people and 300 is now instead of one thing, I can do two things.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (14:43):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yep, there\u2019s new benefits, new dangers, because when you\u2019re five people, osmosis works for you. Just being in the same room and the stuff that happens on accident is fantastic because people kind of intuitively know each other, know what\u2019s going on, but the stuff that happens on accident at 50 people and things just happening because people are around each other can actually be really dangerous to business and can have a lot of misunderstanding built into \u2019em. And so there\u2019s a lot of intention that has to be brought to bear as you start to grow past that 10 people at a table level of the business.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (15:17):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A hundred percent. Well, so you\u2019ve gone through this a lot, then you had this successful traditional, well not fully traditional, but also doing good but with money. And then you\u2019re like, okay, so what led you decide to go do uplifting capital?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (15:28):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I was inspired that I could do more. I had this seat and I was sort of excited by the idea of private markets becoming more mainstay in wealth management, particularly for higher net worth clients and what was going to happen there. I was excited by people starting to talk about their values and money together more regularly, but just found that these two trends, these two exciting things hadn\u2019t been brought together in wealth management in a way I thought they should be. And so started to have those conversations with the advisors who I worked with and talk about what could be a value, started to have those conversations with clients that we had and appropriate level clients and just thought if we could accomplish three things, then I thought we could really scale the number of people who are thinking about doing good for people, planet and economy alongside of thinking about growing their finances.<\/p>\n<p>(16:24):<\/p>\n<p>And those were if we could build something unquestionably institutional from day one, if we could be really good stewards of capital from the start, if we could build something uncompromisingly scalable for advisors and wealth management firms, not trading anything for scale, and then if it could feel profoundly personal to the individual client even while scalable for advisors and even while kind of institutional in nature one, I thought we could kind of thread that needle and do those three things at the same time and I thought we could have a genuine impact on the world and on the way that people think about managing money and investing money. And so boldly kind of set out with that crazy idea and found some people along the way who agreed with me and some brilliant folks who came along to work with me on that and filled different pieces of those attributes. And so we\u2019re been at it now for a few years, started in earnest in late 21, but really in 2022 really started at it when I gave up the role at Enzo completely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (17:25):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And so does uplifting work directly with consumers or it works with RIAs or other wealth managers?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (17:31):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No, we serve wealth managers. So if individuals came to us, we\u2019re just not built for them. For us scaling this space and building something that\u2019s useful to advisors, primarily ria, some family offices, that also means, I think it\u2019s underappreciated how many foundations are through wealth management firms, not just kind of the big consultants. So we work with foundations, we work with individual clients, but all of it goes through fiduciaries.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (17:57):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s interesting. And so for the wealth managers, what do you do for them? How do you bring impact investing to their clients essentially and then they give us sleeve like assets to you or how does it work?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (18:07):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They give a leave of assets to us. We manage vehicles, so we have a vehicle each year that has assets across a number of different asset classes and a number of different impact themes. First believing that economic drivers and impact drivers can work together synergistically, and so we\u2019re unabashedly investors first. So again, on that theme of sort of meeting financial firms where they are, meeting advisors where they are, and then when advisors invest with us, we put together institutional vehicles that include venture capital investments, private equity investments, and also real assets investments across about nine themes that touch on people, planet and economy. Things like financial inclusion, which would certainly be I think in the wheelhouse of bolden affordable housing. It could be climate change solutions, food and agriculture health. So all of these things, we invest those in a portfolio that makes sense. And then we personalize impact. And so thinking about how people experience that portfolio, how individual investors experience that portfolio, they might be in a common portfolio and one would be interested in climate change and another would be interested in health and wellness. How they experience that portfolio is different. What we report on the learning that they get alongside of that, the content that they get alongside of that and they can even lean in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (19:26):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So you\u2019re saying you\u2019re creating vintages by a year or there\u2019s like a 2025 portfolio that gets assembled essentially.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (19:32):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So we closed the first vintage in late 23. That was sort of our proof of concept starting vintage, and we partner with wealth management firms at times in multi-year commitments. And so we can have a firm come in and say, we\u2019ll commit to your first three vintages. Sometimes they\u2019ll come into one, and so we close one out with the second one now, and the idea is to have something always available and so the second we close this one, we\u2019ll have another one open,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (19:56):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And so then the RIA is saying, Hey, I\u2019m going to bring in money from various families or whatever they\u2019re going to contribute to this thing. Do you know Opto investments?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (20:05):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I do, yeah. Matt Malone and I were both a part of this organization, adisa and got to know him when Opto was more of a thought than what it is now. I think. Yeah, they\u2019re doing some great stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (20:16):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It just comes to, I mean I just happen to see Ryan VanGorder has been on the podcast, they\u2019re doing alternatives, but also they have this kind of vintage approach, which is like, Hey, we\u2019re creating these vehicles in similar motion. I mean I\u2019m sure you guys compare notes about how to go to market and stuff like that. It\u2019s kind of interesting stuff though.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (20:30):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know as much about what they do from a structure standpoint, but I could certainly see this whole idea of building a model that makes sense and having the ability to customize that within Rails and adjust that for what an advisor\u2019s portfolio needs are, how they see those portfolio very aligned in that thinking. I think private markets have been and continue to be probably 10 years behind public markets in terms of thinking about product rather than thinking about investor need. And so as those solutions have come together in ETFs and different SMA and portfolio management solutions in the public markets, I think we\u2019ll continue to see portfolio construction innovation in the private markets.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (21:10):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s cool. I like this a lot. I like this idea a lot. It\u2019s pretty interesting. What do you want this to become? What does success look like in five or 10 years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (21:17):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>To me, people start the conversation around investments with values in the possibility of values alignment as just a normal thing. It\u2019s not thought of as something that\u2019s concessionary, it\u2019s not thought of as something that\u2019s sort of a corner of the portfolio that can\u2019t be financially reconciled. It\u2019s just a normal thing. So hopefully we have tons of competitors who are doing all sorts of great things for the world, maybe with different opinions on what\u2019s great for the world, but our savvy investors and are thinking about this from an investment standpoint. And for us that means scale. So we see ourselves as having infinite scalability and hopefully this whole space continues to scale.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (21:58):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, no, I could totally see how you deal with a bunch of RIAs on one side of the network. They\u2019re out there gathering assets and building distribution, but you\u2019re saying, Hey, I can help you deliver a scalable impact investing. You make it easy for them by creating the vehicles that let them invest in but also report on. I think the personalized reporting is a really good idea of like, Hey, you can tell Steve you care about climate and maybe solar panels or whatever. It\u2019s like here\u2019s happening in the portfolio for what you care about Andan cares about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (22:29):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, it\u2019s like when we were first starting, there was a lot of thought that this was a nice to have. Even on our own parts, much has been made of the generational wealth transfer or not even generational, also the horizontal wealth transfer from one spouse to another. There\u2019s wealth transfer that\u2019s going to happen at charity. All of that adds up to the numbers often around 70, 80 trillion that you hear that transfer isn\u2019t sort of one principle gone and another principle appear as a one event occurrence. It happens slowly and it happens messy and new seats at the table are being brought. And so the idea of aligning values while often thought of as individual to keep a family together at a certain level of means requires values alignment. And so the opportunity to have this discussion vehicles for having this discussion and then the ability to do that in ways that keep a portfolio aligned with the integrity of the financial goals, but also satisfy some of these values and allow people to be reflected in their investments, it\u2019s a need to have for families with a certain level of complexity, at least the discussion is a need to have and a tool for offering something on the other side of that discussion we have found has been well received.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (23:41):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That makes sense. I definitely am curious what the wealth break are. So there\u2019s a couple points on this. One counterpoint is I\u2019m a member of bogleheads. I went to their conference and they are generally like EH, ESG, we don\u2019t like E-S-G-S-G has crummy returns and it\u2019s a mistake. I think also many of those folks are, our users are kind of like 401k millionaires. So like, Hey, I\u2019ve worked to save my whole life. Yay, I\u2019ve got a couple million bucks. I don\u2019t have 10, I don\u2019t have 20, but I\u2019ve got enough to be, I got to take care of this and do a good job of managing the withdrawals and taxes and all that stuff. So I think for a lot of, well at least some of the bullheads, they\u2019re like, ah, I don\u2019t know. This is a good economic return. But I also think that for many people they would like to align if they could, if it wasn\u2019t too expensive or if it was great, I could invest according of my values, like vote my dollars and get a good return. Great. So I guess my question is how do you react to that and also as people hit different strata of wealth, does this become more important?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (24:41):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>One, we have to have better conversations. One of the themes that we continue to hit on this year as a firm is this whole idea of real world impact versus labels even in our space because people want to run off with DI is a hot button issue, ESG is a hot button issue and people are reacting to their perception of what that is rather than reacting to what that is in a lot of respects. And that\u2019s a whole diatribe I could go off on, but ESG, which is not what we are and I can kind of take you through a spectrum of values seeking capital or sustainable capital, but ESGI will defend for a second as I think we need to think through what the E actually stands for, what the S actually stands for and what the G actually stands for. If it\u2019s a risk management tool, ESG is not an investment strategy, it\u2019s a strategy for managing risk and everyone deploys it to some extent.<\/p>\n<p>(25:30):<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s only some people out there marketing it after California wildfires. Every insurer in the world and everyone who is insurance adjacent is an ESG investor because they are thinking about the environmental impacts of what they do. No one\u2019s ever stopped thinking about governance, right? The G and ESG, and yes, you can find some tussling around the social issues and what people think is appropriate risk management in that social bucket, but there\u2019s something that everyone sees appropriate to look at em. We just talked about culture for five minutes, that\u2019s the s. And so at its essence, ESG is just paying attention to factors that people didn\u2019t necessarily think about as financial factors traditionally.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (26:09):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s super helpful actually. That\u2019s great.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (26:12):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But that aside for us, we are a basket of investments or a portfolio that makes sense for a set of investors at a certain wealth level, whether you put values alignment on it or not, that set of investments makes sense for investors at a certain wealth level. For us right now we\u2019re a qualified purchaser fund and which is 5 million of investible assets in them. So we\u2019ll work with very wealthy families and advisors who serve those families or foundations with a significant amount of assets. We will in future get down to the accredit investor level, which is million dollars of investible assets or a couple hundred thousand dollars a year in income. Still, that\u2019s a significant amount of money no investor should be. They should be looking at our portfolio from an asset class and a portfolio construction standpoint and thinking about whether or not that\u2019s appropriate for their clients.<\/p>\n<p>(26:59):<\/p>\n<p>I will say at the level of wealth that we typically work at, which is kind of the lower end of that qualified purchase spectrum, that five to 50 million of investible assets, us like opto are probably a better solution than most of the private market\u2019s product that\u2019s being hucked at people. Private credit\u2019s being thrown at everyone because that\u2019s hot. Our real estate\u2019s being thrown at everyone because that\u2019s familiar. A portfolio construction approach should be taken, and so I think we\u2019re appropriate there for other investors. There\u2019s ways to align your values and your investments in the public markets. So one of the firms that I love and we\u2019ve been close to from our very beginning is ethic investments. I don\u2019t know if you know ethic, but they\u2019re sort of a values alignment tool where you can choose a tracking error budget and you can choose themes that you care about and you can see how much you\u2019re deviating and you can see what the likely financial outcomes of that is. There\u2019s others that do that same thing. I think used to be aerio now acquired by BlackRock and there\u2019s others that do similar stuff. There are ways to align your investments and your values and have this conversation at different wealth levels. I don\u2019t think we are the solution for everybody.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (28:03):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s awesome. We actually had the Aperio guys on here. It was pretty interesting seeing these stories weave together and this ecosystem, it\u2019s not that huge,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (28:12):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But they\u2019re doing similar stuff on finding tax efficiency and finding really good financial reasons to come into something that could be also aligned with one\u2019s values.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (28:21):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah. I want to dive a little bit more into uplifting, but I actually am curious, when you were starting this thing, how\u2019d you finance it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (28:29):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Friends and family money. My own money and salary sacrifices just believers, so it was just early believers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (28:37):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So it\u2019s all angel, no venture,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (28:38):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No, no venture.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (28:40):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Do you think you\u2019ll ever raise venture institutional money?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (28:43):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>It would be tough to convince. If we could keep the integrity of what we do and continue to drive at impact as the core component of what we want to scale, then there\u2019s a possibility not in the foreseeable future,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (28:56):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Maybe strategic money I could see coming in and saying, Hey, we like this idea. Much more<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (29:00):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Likely<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (29:01):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>People inside the industry. This makes sense. I was propping for this, pulling the data on just for our audience, they know we\u2019re a venture backed company. The data on women and minorities getting venture, which I mean obviously you didn\u2019t seek it, but it\u2019s so shockingly low. Female founded companies get 2% of VC dollars and African-American black founders get 1%. It\u2019s like it\u2019s tough.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (29:25):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We are part of the answer to that reality and we didn\u2019t raise venture partially because I wanted to see this company stay what it was, but it is also really difficult and both of my partners are women and so one\u2019s a female immigrant and so we have all sorts of statistics that you would think work against us, but it also makes resiliency a native language. You find a way and one of the real inspirations for investing in this space is creating more opportunity where not only should it be because it\u2019s good for the world, but also it\u2019s just overlooked. And gaps are great for investing. Alongside those same statistics are a compelling set of statistics about how women with that venture capital money actually perform against their peers or companies with at least one female founder perform against their peers. That there\u2019s all sorts of great stuff about women investors and how they perform against their peers. And so the overlooked are an opportunity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (30:22):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s a ton of data that having a diverse workforce, having diverse investors leads to better thinking, more dynamic thinking and better outcomes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (30:32):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. We have this whole concept of impact alpha, obviously Alpha comes from manager selection and it comes from for us illiquidity, but when thinking thematically about Alpha, we have three main sources and one of those is underserved markets looking for these overlooked founders and fund managers. We invest in funds looking for these underserved markets, looking for under-resourced problems, things like affordable housing, things like healthcare, and then looking for these underutilized value creation levers and ways that you can both create impact value, but the problem that you\u2019re talking about, we see as significant opportunity when properly invested.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (31:10):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s awesome. I mean when you\u2019re out there, so you\u2019re getting this capital, then you\u2019re out there deploying it. So basically you have two sides of this thing that you\u2019re running. What\u2019s the time split between raising money and deploying it? And I understand the raising money side of it, that\u2019s how we cross paths at these RA conferences and stuff like that run around with these wealth managers who are sitting on giant pools of capital. It sounds like the other side of your job is venture or whatever, private equity. I mean you\u2019re out there looking for deals. How do you find those?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (31:37):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>In our investment team, we call \u2019em the Lindas. We have two brilliant women named Linda, our chief investment officer, Linda Asante is really tasked with leading our firm around not only how we find those deals, which for us the first place those deals come from is investment managers who are thematically focused, but also kind of diligence seeing those deals. So we\u2019re paying attention to 1500 plus managers at any given time looking for who\u2019s open, who\u2019s closed across private equity, venture, real assets, and then constructing that in this portfolio that includes the right balance of things that have a shorter duration like real assets or including affordable housing is a shockingly good investment. Renewable energy is discussed a lot now and it\u2019s great investment. And then you have venture on the other side. So what makes sense for your average investor and how can that be tweaked for an investor specific needs is what Linda Asante is charged with leading for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (32:35):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So she\u2019s not investing in individual deals. I live in venture land where these VCs show up at. These companies are like, Hey, we\u2019ll invest in you bold and here\u2019s a chunk of capital. It\u2019s a direct investment. It sounds like you guys are investing in fund managers that might be like a venture fund<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (32:48):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Primarily, and we\u2019ll opportunistically invest in individual deals alongside those fund managers, but we won\u2019t source something in its infancy and we\u2019re not built to do that. And that level of risk without a manager who we trust coming in alongside just doesn\u2019t make sense for the people who we\u2019re investing for.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (33:06):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Totally. It feels a lot like Opto and just alternative investing in general. I mean, are there systems, it\u2019s like is some of the stuff public or is it all private or how would you characterize these investments? Do they count as alts or<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (33:19):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They\u2019re all private In a larger bucket, you would count \u2019em as alts, but Alts is an amorphous term. It includes all sorts of stuff that\u2019s somewhat public. Hedge funds are alts and gold is Alts for us, it\u2019s all private and it\u2019s all private equity. It\u2019s broadly speaking private equity. So the capital private equity is much later stage investments in private companies for us, broadly speaking, private equity is just private ownership that starts at venture and some of that goes pretty early stage and some of that goes into later growth venture. And then real assets are private ownership of projects, which include things like infrastructure and housing. But we are broadly a private equity company and we benchmark ourselves against traditional cover up the impact label private equity, and right now we do pretty good against it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (34:08):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s awesome. Okay. So how do you feel like you guys are doing in terms of growth? Are you achieving the goals you want to achieve in terms of getting capital together, deploying it and all that stuff?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (34:17):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, so I think the goals we want to achieve from a growth perspective, from company growth perspective is by good partners. And so we count our growth. We had some folks who jumped on very early. It\u2019s funny, we started out joining us on the journey was a phrase that we felt like we said to death not only to our RA partners who were joining us on the journey betting that they\u2019re coming into something that was sound and institutional. If very, very early we turned to fund managers who we were asking to decrease their investment minimums and work with us and join us on the journey, join us on the journey. And so from the start, I\u2019ve been pleased with our growth because we\u2019ve been growing with the right set of partners. We\u2019ve been fortunate to have some really mega firms join us from very early on, even into fund one and some smaller firms join us on that journey, but they\u2019ve brought great clients with them.<\/p>\n<p>(35:06):<\/p>\n<p>And so this second vehicle that we\u2019ve launched, I am overwhelmed with the quality of partners who\u2019s chose to entrust us with their capital and how they\u2019re thinking about utilizing us. There\u2019s places where we are starting to build out whole impact programs and think about how they drive that impact and sit alongside some pretty sophisticated philanthropic practices. And there are others who just see us as sort of a deficient product to bring alongside other more sophisticated impact products or more idiosyncratic impact products that their firms are utilizing. But we\u2019re growing with the right partners, never fast enough for me. I\u2019m a founder, so if you ask me if we could grow with those right partners faster, absolutely we could add more daily. But I have to say bottom line, I\u2019m super pleased with our growth because it\u2019s healthy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (35:55):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>We have 40,000 paying subscribers now on the D two C side. They have a hundred billion in their financial plans that they\u2019re invested, probably mostly public markets and equities, fixed income and stuff like that. That is amazing, but we don\u2019t manage the money,<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (36:10):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>But you\u2019re affecting that amount of financial security and financial wellbeing, which is phenomenal.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (36:16):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, thanks. No, it\u2019s interesting. I mean it\u2019s so interesting when you\u2019re doing a new model, we\u2019re doing a new model, this very aligned, transparent way of doing business. And I\u2019ve always thought, oh, as we grow, could we make it easier for people to do stuff like this? Could they say, Hey, actually I like this idea. I mean we do have an RIA inside of this thing, but it\u2019s almost like crowdfunding like, oh, would people like to do this kind of thing? And we all like this idea we\u2019re all going to jump on and invest this way or that way. I do think that some of that could happen in the future. And also conversations like this, there\u2019ll be thousands of people that listen to this, which is kind of crazy. We\u2019d be nervous and sometimes it could be 10,000 people, but the world is changing with the distance.<\/p>\n<p>(37:00):<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s so interesting listening to you describe how you do work, that\u2019s like how venture and private equity, you\u2019re out there looking for deals, thinking about all this stuff. You\u2019re in the inner mechanics. It\u2019s not like I\u2019m just buying some ticker symbol and trading it. You\u2019re dealing with the companies and what they\u2019re doing. And then on the other side is the people that have been saving and they want to do good with their money and have be protective. And some of them are like, I want to have it aligned with my values and I\u2019d love to also touch and feel and know where my money\u2019s going, what it\u2019s doing for me or what it\u2019s doing for the world.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (37:29):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And I think people are increasingly thinking that more is possible and no longer accepting that they can\u2019t have it all. We find that with, we have a lot of MBA students who come through and work with us. And for me, I was thinking about my career as I need a job and I need to feed myself and I need to do great, and at some point I\u2019m going to turn and I\u2019m going to try to do some good. And I ended up accidentally doing good along the way and that was great. But the main thing I was thinking about is feeding myself. And I think people now, even from a work context, are really thinking about aligning those values, doing things that reflect who they want to be, how they want to show up in the world with how they live from right now, from day one and not necessarily waiting. And I think the same thing is happening with finances. And so yeah, I do think people will continue to see what we\u2019re doing, see what you\u2019re doing, and find ways to have that good invited into their life, whether that\u2019s through us or whether that\u2019s through doing it creatively and uniquely themselves or some other means.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (38:27):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I could see eventually if you scale this thing, it becoming available maybe. I mean, you ever thought about going through the workplace? I mean that\u2019s where most people have most of their savings.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (38:36):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. No, no. We think about we can\u2019t get ahead of ourselves, but we think these are good investments, double good, double bottom line, good investments. But first of all, we think these are good investments and so we feel very comfortable as stewards of people\u2019s capital and we feel very comfortable that they\u2019re going to see their financial goals met through what we do. And so from that frame, it makes sense to be as many places as possible and we just need to find the right avenue and the right timing to get down. Market is such a bad way to bad to say it, but become available to a lot more people<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (39:10):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>For sure. It is crazy when you look at the wealth concentration in this country and it\u2019s like half this country has no money, literally zero savings and then it\u2019s like 25 or 30% have a little bit, and then the top 20% has pretty much most of it. But really it\u2019s the top 5 3 1 0.1. I think you get to 0.001, there\u2019s a thousand billionaires in this country. The concentration just keeps lifting up, so<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (39:36):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Fix that<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (39:38):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Bolded. Yeah, obviously I do think financial literacy makes a huge difference. It does. That\u2019s where it starts. But then, yeah, people taking risks with their human capital. I mean the good thing about this country is that most people don\u2019t inherit their money. They actually make it. And so there is the opportunity, but if you come from money or you come from education and you\u2019re financially literate and you have access to the social capital, there\u2019s a lot of opportunities that we have and our children have that people from other places may not have just growing up in this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (40:09):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yes, but while wealth asymmetry is I think arguably, and maybe not even arguably being exacerbated, information asymmetry is coming down and that includes information about effective entrepreneurship, that includes information about what sound investing is. And I think if we find relationships and networks being evened out alongside of that information evening, there\u2019s hope.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (40:34):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yep. Well, and it\u2019s interesting looking at it generationally. Yeah, the boomers had pensions like I\u2019m Gen X, we had early 401k\u2019s but didn\u2019t know what we were doing. And many people suffered. Millennials kind of got the short of the stick because 2008 and various financial crisis hurt them, but the Gen Zs seem like they\u2019ve gotten the message saving money they\u2019re investing in, they\u2019re richer relative to the earlier generation. So they have way more access to information. They have stronger networks, they have more access. They\u2019re taken some of those lessons. And so<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (41:06):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They give me me hope. We\u2019ve seen Gen Zs driving family conversations in a way that we personally like uplifting capital and myself in a way that I don\u2019t think happened with millennials or Gen Xers at this stage in the family. And so yeah, gen Z gives me hope.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (41:23):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, for sure. I also think people are more open to talking about money now, which is a good thing. When I grew up, people didn\u2019t talk about money impolite talking about money, and now people talk about how much money they make, what they\u2019re doing with it, and there\u2019s more intergenerational discussions anyway, all that money\u2019s going to flow, that 80 trillions coming, getting to younger people and the world really could change in a huge way. So if it goes to people that are like, Hey, I want to invest in a values aligned way, you\u2019re right. It\u2019s like if someone controlled 10 million bucks and then their spouse gets it and they think differently or their kids got it and they think differently, that\u2019s a big change all at once.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (41:59):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They have a refreshing level of impatience about what they want to see in the world, the philanthropic inclination of women far exceeding that of men and how much they give and what drives their financial decisions and how they pick financial advisors based on values. And so I think between women coming into much more wealth and increasingly becoming heads of household and Gen Zers and even millennials having a seat at the table, we\u2019re betting on them driving change and I\u2019m excited about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (42:30):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I would definitely like to look at, I\u2019ll look it up after the fact, but this cascade of money from the more traditional male head of household to I know Ellevest, and the whole thesis is women are going to inherit or control a huge amount of the assets and it\u2019s already starting to happen.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (42:49):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>They flip to the majority, at least there\u2019s a <a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/4i6PlPD\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">great book called I think 2030<\/a>, but they are slated to flip to the majority by 2030.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (42:56):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>So 2030 women are going to control most assets in this country.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (42:59):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yep, it\u2019s a good thing. Yep.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (43:00):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s pretty interesting, right? I mean, think about that. Do you have any similar data points around how they invest differently?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (43:06):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, we do. Morgan Stanley has a study, and I\u2019ll send it to you after the podcast, but over 50% said they would choose a financial advisor based on whether or not they could serve their values, alignment needs or matched their values. And there\u2019s that same data by the way, on diverse investors. Very, very, very values aligned and philanthropically inclined.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (43:27):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>And then I\u2019d be curious how many female advisors are there and how many minority advisors are there now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (43:32):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Way too few to serve that tsunami of wealth transfer that\u2019s going to happen. And so yeah, I didn\u2019t intentionally have a female investment team and have a female co-founder and co-managing partner, but I think we are aligned with what the future of wealth looks like.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (43:50):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, well, so the move is if you\u2019re a wealth manager, you should be hiring women and minority, younger people to serve this audience.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (43:56):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>At the very least, they\u2019re starting to signal, you see a lot of the major firms are starting to have these women in wealth initiatives now. Actually hiring the talent and making sure that you\u2019re putting the resources behind those things that folks say they\u2019re doing is a different story. At the very least, the industry is awake to the future of wealth, which is female.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (44:16):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Well, they also have to, there\u2019s just a generational, I think the average wealth advisor is like a 50-year-old male and it\u2019s like a huge percentage. They got to just train people up and get \u2019em to work.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (44:26):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s crazy. A lot of good stuff and a lot of change afoot in this industry, which I\u2019m here for it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (44:32):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>If you\u2019re a retail investor, what\u2019s something, if they want to get more aware of impact investing, how can they go to uplifting capital, learn about it there, but other things they can do to start learning about this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (44:42):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, no uplifting capital. We put out a lot of one-on-one content because of what we do and who we serve and we go deeper on particular themes. But that\u2019s a great resource. The <a href=\"https:\/\/thegiin.org\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Global Impact Investing Network<\/a> is a great place to look, Jen. They are tasked with training the world on impact investing and thinking about impact. SOCAP is a huge conference, that kind of big impact investing conference that puts on a lot of good stuff. So for retail investors, those are great places to start. I think<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (45:11):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s super helpful. Any questions or any thoughts as you look forward for the future of wealth and investing that you see coming in the next five, 10 years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (45:21):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I would love to know about how you think about, and I think of Boldin is a very mission driven, or at least good for the world company. How do you think about the values of your company and what beyond financial success you want to accomplish in the market you want to make as you grow?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (45:40):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Our big idea is can we help a hundred million people achieve financial confidence? But when you get financially confidence, you\u2019re kind of getting literate. But they like this idea of people getting financially literate, people having plans and using a plan as a way of framing up what\u2019s possible. Well, where am I today? What\u2019s possible? How did my money work? And also think about this idea that financial wellness as a practice is a life long thing that you have to engage in. We see with our current users who are 50 plus, these 401k millionaires, they\u2019ve done the right things over the course of their life. They have a fair amount of money and that money gives them agency. And that agency lets \u2019em do things with their human capital, retire earlier, pursue things that they want to pursue that they might not have done. If you\u2019re like, I just got to feed myself. And then we want to get more people under that tent and get \u2019em on that journey and seeing that it\u2019s possible earlier. But what\u2019s interesting about money is that it\u2019s also like a generational unlock. If you\u2019re smart about money and you\u2019ve done well, your kids are way more likely to see that and that affects their lives over the course of their whole lives and hopefully cascades through multiple generations. So broadly, that\u2019s how we think about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (46:52):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Financially Confident is such a great bar to look at hitting. I love that. Financially confident.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (46:59):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah. We call it Boldin, your financial confidence platform. We rebranded from NewRetirement to Boldin because we want to be more accessible. Someone who\u2019s 25 and they see Boldin, they might be, I\u2019ll check it out, but if it\u2019s new retirement, they might be like, I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s quite the right thing for me. And then this idea, I mean it\u2019s still like you we\u2019re on this journey, right? By the way, I love this. Join us on the journey. So many things that you\u2019re doing in the cultural side. You should be a culture consultant and just go around to companies and here\u2019s how to think about what you\u2019re doing and here\u2019s how to build the culture. I mean, it\u2019s cool what you\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (47:29):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I feel like I did a good chunk of my career is no matter what the title is, pretty much just culture defender.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (47:35):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Yeah, it\u2019s super important. Well, anything else you want to share with our audience before I wrap it up?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Toussaint Bailey (47:39):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>No. This is a gift impact investment is not concessionary. If they don\u2019t walk away with anything else, walk away with the belief and the confidence that impact and financial goals can be synergistic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Chen (47:53):<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Alright, awesome. Well, Toussaint, thanks for coming on here and this was really great learning about your work and why you do it and how you\u2019ve gone about it. Hopefully it inspires other people who are thinking about their own entrepreneurial journey and thinking about an impact investing. Definitely we\u2019ll link to uplifting capital so people can check it out. It is great hearing about how you can make your money kind of align with your valets. Thanks for listening. All reviews and feedback are totally welcome and we\u2019ll chat with you next time.<\/p>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.boldin.com\/retirement\/podcast-88-invest-with-impact-with-toussaint-bailey\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\">Source link <\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In this episode, Steve Chen talks with Toussaint Bailey, CEO of Uplifting Capital, about aligning wealth with impact. Toussaint shares his journey from law to wealth management, where he built innovative financial structures, and ultimately to impact investing, proving that doing good and earning strong returns aren\u2019t mutually exclusive. They dive into the future of<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":11103,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"rank_math_lock_modified_date":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[348],"tags":[4545,1154,109,3149,4544],"class_list":{"0":"post-11101","1":"post","2":"type-post","3":"status-publish","4":"format-standard","5":"has-post-thumbnail","7":"category-retirement","8":"tag-bailey","9":"tag-impact","10":"tag-invest","11":"tag-podcast","12":"tag-toussaint"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11101","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=11101"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11101\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/media\/11103"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=11101"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=11101"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/finderica.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=11101"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}